Empire State Plaza

Between Eagle and Swan Streets at Madison Avenue
Albany, NY

Submitted by: Jon Winslow

This plaza is so out of scale it could *almost* make Boston's City Hall & Plaza look good.

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11/22/04 Lee Ann Johnson said:

Might be handy for choreographed totalitarian rallies. Is the pond deep enough for witch drownings?

11/29/04 Dennis Moore said:

WOW, after visiting here with 2 buddies on an October night we had second thoughts about not bringing a frisbee. A great space for track and field events! I think Empire Plaza is cool although I haven't had a chance to see that it's empty during the day...? A possibility for a better future here is to extend pedestrian paths southward from the plaza and have them act as paths to more businesses. Only thing is that there's a large elevation drop to a number of parking areas; I guess the entrances to any new businesses would be on floor 4 or 5.

08/30/05 Danielle Ricard said:

Does PPS actually ASK locals about how they interact with the spaces before putting them on these lists? If you had, you would know that the Empire State Plaza is host to tons of free community events throughout the year--music and cultural events all summer long, ice skating in the winter, millions of people for the 4th of July--and its one of the main places that locals bring out of town visitors. Its very easy to access from the surrounding neighborhood and the underground parking is a space-saver.

12/14/05 Olivia Spencer said:

For the majority of my life I have lived on the other side of the Hudson River in the East Greenbush area. One of the greatest memories I have as a child is taking a trip to the New York State Museum, The Egg, and the Corning Tower observation deck. Walking into the plaza for the first time takes your breath away. It's like walking into the Parthenon in Athens, Greece. It shows our greatest ability as humans living in the most advanced technological age to date. This is a building that is meant to last throughout the ages, long after we are all gone and dust. There is nothing like the Albany skyline. Coming down the hills from East Greenbush heading into Rensselaer and seeing the plaza lit up against the night sky makes you proud to be part of a country capable of that kind of artwork. I've lived in Buffalo, NY for almost five years now and the skyline here is a sore disappointment to what I am used to. The tallest building here is the HSBC building and in no way compares to the beauty and power that the Empire State Plaza commands. The only way to view the Buffalo skyline is to be on a specific part of I-190, and even then they all blend into each other and are hardly distinguishable from the other run down buildings. The Empire State Plaza can be viewed from as far away as atop the ridge between the Helderberg Mts. and the Catskill Mts., also known as Thatcher Park. This is an extraordinary piece of human ingenuity and I fully recommend this to be put on a list of places that someone should visit before they die.

12/23/05 Gerardo Brown-Manrique said:

Having gone to architecture school at Rensselaer (1966-71) I got to watch Rockefeller's Folly be born, and today use it in class as an example of misguided, megalomaniacal planning. Rockefeller, then governor of NYS, wanted a proper reception space, particularly as one drove into Albany from the East... that is why the highway goes under the ESP... but buses must re-direct, as there isn't sufficient headroom. Brilliant! Yes, the space is impressive... I've been to the Zeppelinfled in Nuernberg and it too is impressive, or must have been when the rallies were held there. The high-rise buildings, as best I remember, are not occupied by the State but rather are leased. They tore down wonderful brownstones, removed the poor (read Blacks), and cleaned up downtown, which became lifeless except during the business days.

12/31/05 Kevin O'Leary said:

The Hudson River waterfront was ignored ( and destroyed ) during the Empire plaza planning. Take a look at the Google satellite map http://maps.google.com/maps?oi=map&q=Albany,+NY+12223 and also, if possible, take a walk along the river there.

04/18/06 Scott Hamilton said:

Is Jon Winslow the creator of the main body of this addition to the PPS "Hall of Shame"? I couldn't imagine for second that his statement was made after actual investigating to make an educated statement about the Empire State Plaza or any of Albany's architecture. He states, "This is an empty, wind swept plaza with no human scale what-so-ever."

What? Obviously he's not pertaining to the hundreds of shows performed there during "Live at Five" where people from all over Albany are given a chance to see famous performers on stage for free! The space used during these events is a marvel to encounter! A stage is put up in front of the huge marble stadium seats located outside of the New York State Museum, and behind the stage are the gorgeous fountains lit up creating a captivating scene for those who are more interested in listening to the music then watching it.

Obviously he's not pertaining to the annual car shows available inside the Plaza where everyone from extreme car enthusiasts to your average Joe who's interested in finding a new car, can meet people from almost every make of automobile and ask these experts any question they have, and then later jump behind the wheel and see what it feels like to sit in what could be their dream car.

Obviously he's not pertaining to the countless art exhibits shown in this plaza where artists from all over New York and beyond are provided space to show off their unique styles and sell their art work to anyone who shares their vision and admires their creations.

Obviously he's not pertaining to all of the other equally impressive attractions that line up year round to use this impressive space and the thousands of visitors who know they can rely on it for infinite possibilities in entertainment.

An architecture degree or any other for that matter has no value in creating an accurate depiction of the significance of such an unparalleled use of space. The only education needed is the one obtained purely through experiencing the endless opportunities provided by the Empire State Plaza while spending a significant sum of time in Albany.

01/10/07 Tim Cooke said:

Rather than treat you to my opinions immediately I'll begin by noting my thoughts on my fellow commenters above. For background I'm a native of Glasgow, Scotland and therefore familiar with the wholesale destruction of well built neighborhoods and their replacement with unattractive concrete in the 60's and 70's. For most of this Millenium I've lived in East Greenbush NY and worked overlooking the plaza from a low level roost in the Corning Tower. I'm most closely in agreement with Olivia and while it can be windy on the plaza in winter I rarely miss the chance to walk on it when the weather is more cooperative, and it never fails to impress. Gerardo seems a little confused on the buses, mine travels under the edifice successfully each day. I would agree with Kevin that the riverfront was sadly neglected in building I-787 and the relatively recent addition of a decorative parking lot hardly improves the impression one gets from this viewpoint. The view of the plaza complex from outside is also spoiled now by the addition of heavy duty wire mesh, no doubt to save the state a lawsuitif the masory cladding is dislodged onto a passer by. The office space in the buildings is dated and not without problems with heat and ventilation, but it's the best place I've worked. The Concourse keeps the Albany winter at bay, I love passing through an art gallery en route to the office each day and there's plenty going on in the summer to meet most tastes. I only wish more use was made of the open terrace around the State Museum's 4th floor to further enhance the utility of the area. While there are certainly arguments to be made about displacing neighborhoods, the cost, and the dubious workings of Albany politics (both city and state), the Empire State Plaza stands as an impressive piece of monumental architecture and a worthy reason to visit the city.

02/01/07 David Krings said:

After moving to the Capital area recently I had the chance to meet downtown Albany in person. While I was there, Albany did not show up. I don't blame Albany for that, because some fanatic idiot malicously crippled Albany by erecting the Empire State Plaza. What did the citizens of Albany do to get punished like that? Even a nuclear power plant would have done more for the city. The Empire State Plaza is in the ranks of Hitler's and Mussolini's fascistoid monster projects and has the welcoming character like the Berlin Wall seen from the east. I am still in shock and currently trying to find out why the New Yorkers and the people from Albany just let this happen to them. My advice is to drill many holes into the ESP, stick all the dynamite in it that can be found, and then light the fuse. Even if this is all that gets done, it is better than the status quo. And if the New Yorkers and the people from Albany have a little bit pride left in their capitol and city, they will do it. I have seen many cities who suffered more destruction during the 60s and 70s than any war could bring, but in some cases remarkable and pleasant, yet modern architecture moved in. And even the bad examples now appear warm and welcoming to me after seeing ESP. I really wanted to be more positive, but this is as negative, cold, and destructive as ESP itself. I am sure I will not go back to Albany any time soon.

02/23/07 Paul Grupp said:

With all due respect, this review of the empire plaza is a total crock. I lived across from the plaza for a year, and found it a wonderful, enjoyable place to spend time.

First of all, not all of us want to sit all the time. The plaza is used by hundreds of joggers and walkers every day.

If you DO want to sit, there are literally thousands of places to do it -- from the built-in park benches that line the reflecting pool, to the numerous picnic tables (which are removed in the winter) to the benches amongst the trees in the garden areas. There are many architectural elements that serve as seating as well -- not the least of which are the stairs to the NY State Museum, which serve as a theatre for the nearly weekly concerts that are held here through the summer months.

In short, this is a wonderful public space that is much appreciated by the thousands of visitors who use it on a daily basis.

04/13/07 John Lukasik said:

This is Albany, New York? At first glance I thought it was Pyongyang, North Korea.

09/15/07 Franny Wentzel said:

I like the place. Has a nice neo-Buck Rogers style to it that makes up for most of its anti-urbanity. For all the building it destroyed an equal number were cause d to be saved when surrounding properties were bought up by workers. And if you really want endless fields of brownstones, move to Brooklyn. Not every place has to be the Ku'damm or one of Jane Jacobs' wet dreams - there is virtue in a place of solitude and quiet in the middle of 30.000 of your closest friends. As the man said, Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens. That being said the Swan Street side could be improved by removing the auto ramp and intigrating with the surviving streetscape of older albany. Where a cancelled freeway project ended could be a reshaped plaza in what looks now like an abandoned lot - an ovoid traffic circle would strike the best balance. Perhaps an Egyptian style obelisk can be installed in the center with a pedestrian bridge up to the (now former) lobby level. While we're reworking the Swan Street building we'll want to reface the Swan street building in limestone and add Egyptian freizes on the lower wall. Having sent people up to the old lobby, we would then punch an open walkway through the building to a bridge lined with limestone pylons that covers over part of the freeway in the space between that would take people to the Plaza itself. Another improvement I would suggest is to replace the bottoms of the reflecting pools with structural glass panels. That way the concourse will have natural light and the plaza won't look as desolate in the winter time when the pools have to be drained. Eagle Street side is another story. Get rid of the Parker Dunn bridge and its interchange as well as the waterfront highway and replace the highway with a signal controlled esplanade with park median strips. So little marine traffic comes up the Hudson that you could probably get away with using a drawbridge - with the advantage of lesser bridge approaches. One could perhaps relink Madison Avenue to a new bridge. Having cleaned up the riverfront you could then redevelop the freeway leading into the plaza as an ordinary - though fairly wide - street. I'm thinking some of the Googie stuff from the 1950s. Put a building like the Lever House over those giant ventilators and add a few more decks to that giant parking ramp so itr will better frame the little park in front of the Cathedral on Madison. On that sliver of land between the parking ramp and the Plaza one would want a tower like this one http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=pittsburghstateofficebuilding-pittsburgh-pa-usa Has a lower section that can fill the street void on the Madison and a tower that can stand in open space on the side where there's an irregular street shape.

09/15/07 Franny Wentzel said:

I should note that my comment has paragraph breaks when I submitted it. PBS must've fubared it. Sorry about that.

01/04/08 Paul Rooney said:

I had a professor at Syracuse who loathed this place, as he was German and it recalled the Nazi architecture of his youth. I found that his impression and vehement opposition to my own caused me to rethink the space and consider for the first time what was sacrificed to construct it. I grew up in the Albany area when the Plaza was under construction. Watching it take form was an interest I shared with my father, so the place has always had a nice connotation for me. While the space is imperfect in many ways (see the previous submissions) it IS unique to the area and not wholly unappealing. It is also a setting for many memories for many people in this region, which in my mind is one of the defining characteristics of noteworthy public spaces. I wish it hadn't come at the expense of 100 square blocks of city neighborhoods, particularly at a time when Albany continues to define itself as an urban setting, but I've been there on many 4th of July evenings with 100,000 others for fireworks and always enjoyed myself. You can find fault with just about any place (or anything or anyone), and often times rightfully so, but the Plaza (warts and all) is a great example of how a people will take a monumental lemon and make lemonade from it.

06/18/09 mickeba von sage said:

Rockefeller thought "big" and this is certainly "big". Perhaps subconsciously, the plaza grew out of Rockefeller's realization that he'd never become President, so he created his own kingdom? Having never been to the plaza, and reading the testimonials, I am interested in seeing it. It does look "fascist" to a certain degree, but I can see where it could have elements that would encourage human activity. The concerts sound terrific. mickeba

11/04/09 Kevin Mooney said:

I love Empire State Plaza! It's an amazing and grotesque and brutal example of modern architecture. I love going there when there are no events and few people. It is quiet, and it feels like it's all yours. You feel like you are in a library or a museum. The plaza was clearly intended to be a work of art and not a living space. It is a park, not a neighborhood. I can live with some places being that. Last time I was there, I saw some kids riding their bikes down the steps in front of the museum. Architecture seems to be reviled and mostly destroyed before it is appreciated...